Click on each image and read the chart for its information
The Deity of Jesus Christ
(God, the Son)
What different churches teach about Christ's Nature
Atheist
Believe Jesus was just a man. They do credit him with being an influential philosopher and a moral intellectual who became wiser with age. They do not believe Jesus was raised from the dead.
Christadelphian
Jesus did not exist in any personal way before His divine conception but is the literal "word of God" become flesh. He was created a special but mortal man. He received divine power at His baptism which was withdrawn at the cross. Since they assert man has no soul, he also ceased to exist during the three days he was dead. Upon his resurrection, Jesus became the fullness of deity in bodily form thus completing a three step progression in nature. (Heb 13:8) They do not believe Christ will ever be equal to God or truly divine since they believe Jesus is a created being just like man and the angels.
Jehovah's Witnesses
They teach that Jesus was created by God just prior to creation. Jesus then created everything else. (Col 1:16,17 NWT inserts "other" before "things" to make the text read, "By His all OTHER things were created". The word "other" inserted throughout the text is not in the original Greek.) Jesus is not considered to be equal to God at all but a lesser being. Jesus ceased to exist at His death for 3 days.
Mormon
"As man now is, God once was...As God now is, man can become." Is a saying that accurately describes Mormon view of Jesus. Mormons believe that Jesus was created by God and is a "brother" to Satan. Like H.W. Armstrong, they teach divine progression. Jesus was once just a man who lived on another planet. He eventually progressed to be equal to God and came to colonize planet earth with "gods to be" or humans. Unforeseen to Christ, Satan (Jesus' brother) put a kink in this plan when he deceived Adam and Eve. Jesus was then required to die for fallen man, His creation. Jesus therefore is a model for us and one day we will be equal to God and colonize other planets too. There are millions of other planets being colonized right now in the same way in other galaxies. What makes earth's colonizing process unique is Satan's deception of Adam. Jesus is the God of planet earth. The Mormon hope is to marry, through a Mormon Temple ceremony, as many earth women as possible for eternal celestial marriage. In the resurrection all good Mormon men will call from the dead those women they married in a temple ceremony. They will then fly off to some uninhabited planet with their many polygamous wives and populate that planet.
Bible
The Bible teaches that Jesus is one of three separate personal beings who are divine. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal and have always existed. The Bible view of the divinity of Christ is categorically different from all the above. We will one day share the divine pattern of moral conduct and be equal to God in righteousness but mankind will in no sense ever be considered divine or equal to God in nature. Jesus pro-existed His physical birth: Jn 1:15 + Lk 1:24-26; Jn 1:1. Jesus created ALL THINGS and therefore is not Himself created: Jn 1:3; Col 1:16,17; Heb 1:2,10. Rev 5:13,14 pictures a scene with all creation worshipping Jesus as God: Rev 5:13,14
This is from "The Interactive Bible" website It is a very good bible resource internet library.
Life in the Spirit
In the old days of the Jews, the law was taken literally. No one was apart from it. The longing to be set free from the law is woven throughout the written record of the Torah. When the One came to earth to do away with the old laws and old covenants, the Jews rejected Him. They would not accept a new covenant of the Messiah in Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ's death fulfilled those laws. "... God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that were against us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." (Colossians 2:13-15)
Therefore, those who are in Christ Jesus must live by the spirit. Christ said in John 6:63, "The Spirit gives life, the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken are spirit and they are life." A life that is controlled by the law is not in Christ, but a life guided by the Spirit dwells with Him who died and took the laws with Him so we can live freely in His life.
Baptism: Symbol or Requirement
Baptism, as a whole, in this day in time, is defined and practiced many ways. In the days before Christ, and even John the Baptist, baptism was a ritual practiced by many diverse people for their own reasons.
"Baptism was a rite characteristic of John the Baptist's ministry (Mark 1:4, 11:30; Luke 7:29), and was imposed upon converts from the beginning of the Christian church (Acts 2:38-41, 19:3-5). Analogies to this use of water in religious ceremonies are found in the Eleusinian Mysteries in Greece, certain Babylonian religious rituals, and Jewish priestly ordinances (Num 19:7). Just prior to the Christian era proselytes from the Gentiles qualified for membership in Israel by baptism.
John the Baptist took this ceremony and adapted it as purification for the reign of the Messiah (Luke 3:3-6). By means of this rite, the people were consecrated to receive salvation; while Jesus, in submitting himself to John's ritual, was consecrated to bestow it (Matt. 3:13-15)." (Harper's Bible Dictionary, Madeleine S. Miller and J. Lane Miller, Harper & Brothers, Publishers, 1961, pg 60)
Infant Baptism
"The Bible is abundantly clear of what baptism is, who is it for, and what it accomplishes. In the Bible, only believers who had placed their faith in Christ were baptized - as a public testimony of their faith and identification with Him (Acts 2:38; Romans 6:3-4). Water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience after faith in Christ. It is a proclamation of faith in Christ, a statement of submission to Him, and an identification with His death, and resurrection.
With this in view, infant baptism is not a Biblical practice. An infant cannot place his or her faith in Christ. An infant cannot make a conscious decision to obey Christ. An infant cannot understand what water baptism symbolizes. The Bible does not record any infants being baptized." (www.gotquestions.org/infant-baptism.html)
Youth Baptism
"As a child matures in his faith and it is evident that he is truly born again, the father and/or mother should be perceptive as to when he is ready to receive such teaching. The spiritual maturity level of one child differs from that of another even in the same family.
Although this is an Old Testament story, the truth is still applicable. In Nehemiah 8:1-8, we read the account of Ezra, the scribe, reading the law to the people of Israel. He read it to the men and women and all who were able to understand. From 10:28 we learn that these included their sons and daughters. See also 8:8 for the same meaning. And so it must be today. It is most important that our children understand spiritual truths, and only wise Christian parents can discern when that time comes.
In many churches, when the parents of a child make it known to the pastor that he/she is wanting to be baptized, the pastor speaks with the child to decide if he/she is ready. This is a good and wise practice. It is vitally important that a child understands that neither baptism or communion saves him/her, but rather they are steps of obedience and remembrance of what Jesus did for us in providing for our salvation (Luke 22:19). (www.gotquestions.org/children-baptism-communion.html)
It is important to understand that the age of accountability is different for everyone. A child at the age of eight might not be able to understand spiritual truths just as infants are unable to understand them as well. An age requirement in order to be baptized is wrong. Every person is different in their spiritual maturity.
The museum, that is spoken of in a comment just made, has reconstructed a Christian church from the Byzantine-era. The information about the way the culture baptized at this particular era and church is not clear. However, if the Mormon church has particulars and specific facts with documentation, I'm sure everyone interested would like to see proof the LDS church has concerning youth baptisms.
"Doesn't Acts 2:38 teach that we must be baptized in order to be saved?
No. In the original Greek, Peter used the word "for" just like we use it in our everyday conversation. A child is punished for disobedience; not in order to be disobedient, but because he has been disobedient. A man arrested for stealing; not in order to steal; but because he has stolen. The same thing is true in baptism. We are baptized for the remission of sins; not to get our sins washed away, but to show that they have been washed away. A correct rendering of this passage is, "Repent all of you, and each one be baptized to declare the remission of your sins." (Answers to your Bible Questions, Charles Halff, The Christian Jew Foundation, 1972, pg 23) (italics added)
Definition Clarification
LDS Leaders Define Their Concept of
JESUS CHRIST
By Sandra Tanner
"Often Mormons will say that they believe in the same Jesus as standard Christianity. However, their leaders’ definition is very different. The current president of the Mormon Church, Gordon B. Hinckley, made a very telling comment about Jesus Christ in a talk in Geneva, Switzerland, June 6, 1998. The Deseret News reported:
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.
He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Deseret News, Church News section, Salt Lake City, Utah, week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7)" (Utah Lighthouse Ministry)
I hope this quote helps clear up the "Trinitarian Christ vs. Traditional Christ" thing.
Food for thought
"High in the Colorado Rockies where skiers flock each winter for the runs at Vail, local churches were forced by high land prices to build an ecumenical chapel overlooking the slopes. Members of the Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Christian Science, and Jewish congregations all worship there apres-ski.
The centerpiece is a small cross fashioned out of two ski tips. When Jews hold services, the cross is easily moved aside, but when the Vail ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints applied to use the chapel for its services, the request was denied by a 7-3 vote in 1985 of the Vail Religious Foundation, which oversees the chapel.
"This is an interfaith chapel, not an intercult chapel," the Reverend Stephen A. Hoekstra, a Baptist minister, told the Rocky Mountain News."
(In Mormon Circles, 1991,Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc., pp 198)
Every Member is a Missionary
Mormon President David O.McKay stated this quote above as part of his pitch while prophet of the LDS church.
"Writing in the American Journal of Sociology, (May 1980), Rodney Stark and William Sims Bainbridge traced how LDS literature instructs church members in how to use personal friendships and other contacts with Gentiles to proselytize as hove missionaries. The authors outline how leaders teach the Mormon rank and file-including new converts in foreign countries-to use their everyday encounters with Gentile neighbors to encourage conversions.
This plan starts with simple neighborliness, doing such favors as babysitting, running errands, lending tools. With each gesture, Saints are taught to reveal a new bit of the Mormon lifestyle and faith. When a Gentile praises a Mormon girl's performance as a babysitter, her parents reply that the church's tight family bonds make members good with children. A loaned tool comes with a brief sermon about being self-sufficient and prepared for any eventuality. Appreciation for running an errand is met with an explanation that Mormons stick together and see to one another's needs in good times and bad.
Gradually the talk moves toward doctrinal matters such as how the gospels in most Christian churches are mere fragments of a truth shattered by early church schisms and now have been restored by Joseph Smith. Stark and Bainbridge in their study, "Networks of Faith: Interpersonal Binds to Cults and Sects," observed as well that the instructions urge Mormons to shy away from discussing religion directly but rather to ease their targets toward such consideration by incrementally exposing them to LDS beliefs and practices.
It amounts to nothing more than making friends with the neighbors by doing truly friendly things and then eventually offering the new friends a chance to visit their church. The Stark and Bainbridge study compared LDS church figures form a single year (1976-77) in a state of Washington and found that even though door-to-door missionaries were winning only one convert for every thousand families they approached, the home mission method was working in a startling 50 percent of the cases.
Ordinary Mormons operate under an informal quota requiring that they bring one person per year into the church through the home missionary work. The key here isn't that every Mormon brings in a new believer each year, but that families work for many years, hipping away at their Gentile neighbors until eventually they win them over. It may take years of insinuating church ideas into a relationship based largely on talks about what to feed the children and how to fight crabgrass, but finally the targeted Gentiles come over, If it takes six years to convert a Gentile family of six, then the proselytizing Mormon family has met its quota, and the growth continues."
(In Mormon Circles, James Coates, 1991, Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc., p147-148)
They'll get ya - Hook, Line, and Sinker!
"A quite different hook is used at the LDS visitors' center in downtown Mexico City where Mormon artisans have produced a beautiful nativity scene to take advantage of Mexican Catholics' special veneration of the Christmas season. Throughout the Christmas holidays, four-thousand people visit the creche each night, most of them, at least when they enter the grounds, staunch Catholics."
(In Mormon Circles, James Coates, 1991, Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc., p 150)
Non-Christian Missions
"A common criticism leveled at the Mormon missionary program is that it lacks the altruistic qualities common to other Christian missions. There is virtually no effort to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, care for the sick, or adopt the orphaned. Instead resources are channeled into an inexorable quest for converts."
(In Mormon Circles, James Coates, 1991, Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc., pp 150-151)
CARM - and Mormonism
#A Mormon Doctrines
1. There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443); God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321); After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354); God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.)
1. The Bible says there is only one God (Is. 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5). God is a trinity of persons, not three gods. God is eternally God (Psalm 90:2), therefore, He was never a man. God knows of no other gods (Is. 44:8). You cannot become a god (Is. 43:10). Mormonism is wrong.
2. One God verses
1. Isaiah 43:10, You are My witnesses, declares the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me."
2. Isaiah 44:6, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."
3. Isaiah 44:8, "Do not tremble and do not be afraid; have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none.
4. Isaiah 45:5, "I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God."
2. The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35); God is increasing in knowledge, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120); God has the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3).
3. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22); God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516); We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218).
1. The Bible says that God is spirit (John 4:24) and that a spirit does not have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Therefore, God doesn't have a body of flesh and bones and he isn't married to a goddess wife.
4. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188); There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 348).
5. The Holy Ghost is a male personage, (A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p 118; Journal of Discources, Vol. 5, page 179); Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141). This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
#B Joseph Smith boasted he did more than Jesus to keep a church together.
1. Joseph Smith said, "I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." (History of the Church, Vol. 6:408-9).
1. Click here to see this quote in context.
#C Mormonism condemns other religions
1. (Joseph Smith's first vision) "...I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right — and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight. . ." (History of the Church, Vol. 1, page 5-6.)
2. "But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., who afterwards became a Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong." (Brigham Young, "Journal of Discourses," Vol. 2, page 171. - 1855)
#D Mormons has a different Jesus
1. "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.'" (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7)
#E Book of Mormon
1. Joseph Smith said, "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book." (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 461).
2. If the book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible and you can get closer to God by following it (History of the Church, 4:461), why does it not mention plurality of Gods, Word of Wisdom, God is an exalted man, celestial marriage, men may become Gods; three degrees of glory; baptism for the dead; eternal progression, the Aaronic Priesthood, and the Melchizedek Priesthood?
3. Changes in Book of Mormon
1. 1 Nephi 11:18, (1830 edition) "And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin which thou seest, is the mother of [. . . . ] God, after the manner of the flesh." VERSES (1981 edition) "And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh."
2. 1 Nephi 13:40, (1830 edition)"...and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is [. . . . ] the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world..." VERSES (1981 edition) "...and shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the World..."
3. 1 Nephi 20:1 (changed in 1964 ed.) "Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah,[. . . . ] which swear..." VERSES (1981 EDITION) "Hearken and hear this, O house of Jacob, who are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear..."
4. Alma 29:4, (1830 edition)"...yea, I know that he allotteth unto men, yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable, according to their wills..." VERSES (1981 edition) "...yea, I know that he allotteth unto men [ . . . .] according to their wills..."
5. 3 Nephi 22:4 (1830 edition) "...for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, [. . . . ] and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more." VERSES "...for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more."
#F Questions for Mormons
1. Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy? (Doc. & Cov. 132; and History of the Church Vol. 6, page 46, or Teachings of the Prophet, page 324).
2. If the Book of Mormon is true, why do Indians fail to turn white when they become Mormons? (2 Nephi 30:6, prior to the 1981 revision).
3. How did Joseph Smith carry home the golden plates of the Book of Mormon, and how did the witnesses lift them so easily? (They weighed about 230 lbs. Gold, with a density of 19.3 weighs 1204.7 lbs. per cubic foot. The plates were 7" x 8" by about 6". See Articles of Faith, by Talmage, page 262, 34th ed.)
4. If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God? (Doc. & Cov. 132:17,37)
5. If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50).
6. How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon's while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (1 Kings 5:13-18 and 2 Nephi 5:15-17).
7. God rejected the fig leaf aprons which Adam and Eve made (Gen. 3:21). Why do Mormons memorialize the fall by using fig leaf aprons in the secret temple ceremonies?
#G Verses worth noting from LDS Scripture
1. Book of Mormon
1. Sufficiently Humble, "Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?," (Alma 5:27).
2. Mocking Brother, "Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is not prepared; and I would that he should prepare quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth not when the time shall come; for such an one is not found guiltless. 30 And again I say unto you, is there one among you that doth make a mock of his brother, or that heapeth upon him persecutions? 31 Wo unto such an one, for he is not prepared, and the time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved!" (Alma 5:29-31).
2. Doctrine and Covenants
1. Celestial Law, "For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory," (DC 88:22). --- following are excerpts from LDS.org, search on celestial law requirements
1. "If we are fully obedient to celestial law, fulfilling the laws of Christ, we will be worthy of a celestial glory. But for those who do not fully comply with celestial law, other lesser degrees of glory have been prepared..." (Delbert L. Stapley, The Blessings of Righteous Obedience, Ensign, Nov. 1977, 18).
2. "respect the opposite sex so that even lustful thoughts are foreign to the mind," (C. Kent Dunford, Are You Ready to Be a Disciple of Christ? New Era, Apr. 1975, 26)
3. "Obedience to Celestial Law Tithing is a part of the celestial law referred to in this revelation. Obedience to it is a prerequisite to being quickened in the resurrection by the fulness of the celestial glory," (Marion G. Romney, The Blessings of an Honest Tithe, New Era, Jan.Feb. 1982, 45).
4. "When we talk of the celestial law which is revealed from heaven, that is, the Priesthood, we are talking about the principle of salvation, a perfect system of government, of laws and ordinances, by which we can be prepared to pass from one gate to another, and from one sentinel to another, until we go into the presence of our Father and God...(Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, 18: The Priesthood, 125)
5. "But what the scriptural account means is that to gain celestial salvation we must be able to live these laws to the full if we are called upon to do so. Implicit in this is the reality that we must in fact live them to the extent we are called upon so to do," (Bruce R. McConkie, Obedience, Consecration, and Sacrifice, Ensign, May 1975, 50).
Click on the CARM title and see a great ministry that does extensive research in Mormonism.
These points came from this web site.
Is Mormonism Compatible with Christianity! Videos
Here is a six part series on the differences of Mormonism and Christianity. Start with the bottom clip and work up. You can click on the title of each clip and it will take you to GodTube.com. Enjoy!
Movies for Mormons
Zion's Best (25) Movies for Latter-day Saints
"Church Standards"
1.Princess Bride
2.Sound of Music
3.Ever After
4.Pride and Prejudice
5.Calamity Jane
6.Casablanca
7.Chariots of Fire
8.The Quiet Man
9.E.T. The Extraterrestrial
10.Hoosiers
11.It's A Wonderful Life
12.The Kid
13.The Lion King
14.The Mighty Ducks
15.Some Like it Hot
16.The Spy Kids
17.Star Wars (The Original)
18.Swiss Family Robinson
19.Toy Story
20.The Wizard of Oz
The list isn't complete on the website where I got this from. The movies are of "Church Standards" and are the point of view of the website. (www.zionsbest.com)
The Mormon church does make "recommendations" for their members to view certain movies. I remember how I was taught in many of my church classes to only view movies that are "G" rated and view some "PG" movies. I never saw "R" rated movies at all when growing up. I don't think that too many of those "R" movies were at the theater. The town I grew up in had way too many Mormons for the theater to permit those movies from being shown. The theater, more than likely, would have had to shut their doors due to no people in the seats.
As a Mormon, I didn't want to have my Priesthood dad breathing down my neck or sit in the Bishop's office because of a movie. It wasn't an option to choose the movies I watched. (Hardly went to the movies as a kid.) The church does give strong advice in avoiding unhealthy viewing of movies that invite temptation to enter in. All movies are to uplift and be "faith promoting."
The advise from the Mormon church, or any other church, to its members to view "healthy" movies isn't bad, it's when the Bishop or any other church official gets involved, is when the line is drawn. The Holy Spirit should be our guide, not a church.
Mormon Prophets--
I was told that they are "Christian Prophets."
Mormon prophets are not Christian prophets, never have been, never will. If you ask Joseph Smith if he is a Christian prophet, he might say he is not in the sense of other Christians, however, he will say yes he is, in his Christian world.
Thinking-A Follow up
I was told in another comment, "Anyone that believes that "when our leaders speak, the thinking has been done" is an ignoramus and is in direct conflict with both the Church and his or her Heavenly Father"
Here are some quotes that support that saying:
"Always keep your eye on the President of the church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, even if it wrong, and you do it, the lord will bless you for it but you don't need to worry. The lord will never let his mouthpiece led you astray." (LDS President Marion G. Romney, quoting LDS President Heber J. Grant, Conference report October 1960, p78)
"When the Prophet speaks the debate is over." (N. Eldon Tanner, August Ensign 1979, pp2-3)
"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators' of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostasy. One cannot speak evil of the lord's anointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan's favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He {Satan} wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking." "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God." (Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945; also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945, which was the Church official magazine before the Ensign)
There is more. I'll post it if I need to. The Mormons are to obey their prophet and not go against them or "suffer."
Read the fourteen fundamentals in following the Prophet and you'll see that "suffer" is in there.
God Bless!
Eternal Life-Mormon and Christian
I was told in a comment, "LDS have never strayed from Christian doctrine that Eternal Life in heaven with God can only be achieved through the Atoning grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ"
It is true that Mormons believe that Jesus saves them from eternal death and gives them eternal life.
It is true that Christians believe that Jesus saves them from eternal death and gives them eternal life.
Now lets look deeper into the separate definitions of each:
Christian:"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16, NIV, italics added) "Eternal life is, in simple terms, a life that doesn't end. "Eternity" refers to the life-in heaven or hell-after this present one on the created earth. Our sin condemned us to an eternal death of pain and suffering. Those who accept Christs gift of salvation are granted life with Him" (Christianity.com, Christian Foundations, Eternal Life)
Mormon:"Accordingly, eternal life is not a name that has reference only to the unending duration of a future life; immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But only those who obey the fulness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life (D&C 29:43-44.) It is "the greatest of all the gifts of God" (D&C 14:7), for it is the kind, status, type, and quality of life that God himself enjoys. Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation; they are sons of God, joint-heirs with Christ, members of the Church of the Firstborn; they overcome all things, have all power, and receive the fulness of the Father. They are gods." (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie, p237, italics added)
Have the Mormons strayed from Christian doctrine? YES!!!
Footfprints in the Sand
Here is a little thought for ya....
Zionsbest.com under the topic of "twinkies" wrote a little thought about the lovely poem, "Footprints in the Sand."
Sad to see such an inspirational poem to be thought of in this way.
"One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord. Across the dark sky flashed scenes of his life. For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand, one belonging to him and the other to the Lord. When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand. Etc. blah, blah.
Is this the gospel? I don't think so. Try something from Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or the Book of Mormon."
The Gospels are full of how our Savior carries us through our lives if only we lean on Him.
The poem spoke about here is an illustration of how Jesus carries us through the rough times in our lives. There is nothing bad about the poem at all.
Click on the poem below and read it for yourself.
Fourteen Fundamentals?
Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet
By Elder Ezra Taft Benson
February 26, 1980
1.The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2.The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
***Brigham Young stated, There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now, "said he," when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books..." Then Joseph F. Smith followed up and said, "Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth." (Conference Report, October 1897, pp 18-19)
3.The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
***"Our marching orders for each six months are found in the general conference addresses which are printed in the Ensign magazine."
4.The prophet will never lead us astray.
***"I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of the church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God." Discources of Wilford Woodriff, Selected by G. Homer Durham, Sec: Bookcraft, 1946, pp 212-213)
5.The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
***A prophet may not have his Ph.D., but he certainly has his LDS.
6.The prophet does not have to say "Thus saith the Lord" to give us scripture.
***I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture.
7.The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
***Now I tell you that a man in his position is on the way to apostasy. He is forfeiting his chances for eternal life. So is every one who cannot follow the living prophet of God. (President Marion G. Romney, Conference Report, April 1953, p. 125)
8.The prophet is not limited by mens reasoning.
***"Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof until long after the events transpire." (Joseph Smith, Scrapbook of Mormon Literature, Vol. 2, p. 173)
9.The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
***"Temporal and spiritual things are inseparably connected, and will ever be." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 10:363-364)
10.The prophet may be involved in civic matters.
***"Those who would remove prophets from politics would take God out of government."
11.The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
***My Thought***Why does the LDS have BYU then?***
12.The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13.The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency-the highest quorum in the church.
***"Whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those...the First Presidency, whom I have sent.: (D&C 112:20)
14.The prophet and the presidency-the living prophet and the First Presidency-follow them and be blessed; reject them and suffer.
***Brigham Young stated, "You cannot destroy the appointment of a prophet of God, but you cna cut the thread that binds you to the prophet of God and sink yourselves into hell." (President Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, 1963, p81)
"I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord, then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captains. How closely do our lives harmonize with the words of the Lords anointed-the living prophet, the President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency."
This is not the complete talk given, but it is in part. The asterisks were added by me for emphasis. The point I'm trying to convey is that the 14 points here are not in line with the Bible.
Control Panel Follow-up
*Where I'm from, the common unwritten thought was "As a man Thinketh." I know the book with the same title contributes to this...The encouragement of "Faith Promoting" literature is 'highly' recommended.
*The celestial kingdom is the goal after we "Do all we can do" in this life; in order to gain godhood. If there is a Priesthood holder in the house who wants to achiever this, then FHE (family home evening) is a mandatory activity.
*Seminary IS voluntary, however, a "good upstanding member" who wishes to go on a mission and get married in the temple, seminary IS necessary! It's another one of those questions, "Do I want to be a god in the celestial kingdom?" If the answer is 'yes', then seminary is more than voluntary.
*The Priesthood holder monitors the TV and what is listened to. Again, "Faith Promoting!" And don't forget the celestial kingdom is at stake here.
*Non member friends are at arms length. "Every member a Missionary" is the rule. Lets not forget the celestial kingdom is the goal in this.
*The church doesn't like members to question authority even though a member has that right. The consequences of this action usually if followed by being released from callings, temple recommend is denied, bishop discipline, and excommunication. These actions are taken against members all the time when they 'question authority'.
*The priesthood holders, again, who wish to gain the celestial kingdom will instruct their family to sing and listen to "Faith Promoting" hymns and songs. Discipline IS a result by those who believe that the family isn't striving for the goal in the heavens.
The accurate information in the "Control Panel" is logical and real. They are factual and there is *no problem*......Unless you want to be part of a cult........
This is feedback to a comment.
The Consent of Joseph?
"If I can pass brother Joseph, I shall stand a good chance for passing Peter, Jesus, the Prophets, Moses, Abraham, and all back to Father Adam, and be pretty sure of receiving his approbation...If we can pass the sentinel Joseph the Prophet, we shall go into the celestial kingdom, and not a man can injure us. If he says, "God bless you, come along here, if we will live so that Joseph will justify us, and say, "Here am I, brethren, we shall pass every sentinel." (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, Vol. 4, p. 271-272)
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are - I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation - the keys to rule in the spirit world." (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, Vol. 7, p.289)
"He stands, therefore, at the head of this dispensation and will throughout all eternity, and no man can take that power away from him. If any man holds these keys, he holds them subordinate to Joseph Smith...If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him, if we enter into our glory, it will be through the authority that he has received. We cannot get around him." (Journal of Discourses. Apostle George Q. Cannon, Vol. 24, pp.275-277)
Just a few quotes to show that Mormons DO believe that nobody can get through to heaven without going through Joseph Smith first!
I give all the credit to Reachout Trust Research Ministries for the information. Please click on their icon at the bottom of the side bar and look under the article, "Mormons and Judgement" and read the whole article. It gives a complete look as to why the Mormons think Joseph Smith has such a role.
Christ: Begotten of Mary and Elohim
"Since Adam, all who have been born into the world have come as the offspring of mortal parents, except on the Lord Jesus. He came into the world as the Son of a mortal mother and an Immortal Father" (Gospel Doctrine, pg 85)
"...to come to this particular earth as the literal Son of the Father....He was born unto this world as the Son of Mary (inheriting from her the power of mortality) and as the Son of Man of Holiness (inheriting from Him the powers of immortality). (Gospel Doctrine, pg 129)
Brigham Young stated: "[Jesus] partook of the flesh and blood-was begotten of His Father, as we were of our fathers." (Journal of Discourses, July 8, 1860)
Heber C. Kimball stated: "I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ...[T]here was nothing unnatural about it." (Journal of Discourses, September 2, 1860)
Brigham Young stated: "The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband." (Deseret News, October 10, 1866)
"The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully. It would have been unlawful for any man to have unterfered with Mary, who was already espoused to Joseph; for such a heinous crime would have subjected both the guilty parties to death, according to the law of Moses. But God having created all men and women, had the most perfect right to do with His own creation, according to His holy will and pleasure: He had a lawful right to overshadow the Virgin Mary in the capacity of the husband, and beget a Son, although she was espoused to another; for the law which He gave to govern men and women was not intended to govern Himself, or to prescribe rules for his own conduct. It was also lawful in Him, after having thus dealt with Mary, to give her to Joseph her espoused husband. Whether God the Father gave Mary to Joseph for time only, of for time and eternity, we are not informed. Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity." (Orson Pratt, "Celestial Marriage", The Seer, October 1855, vol. 1, no. 10, 158)
The conception and birth of Jesus Christ is not as described as above. Spend some time in your own Bible and note the true way Christ came to earth.
Vice-President? Not Good
PLEASE TAKE NOTICE!!!!
As the election of our presidency and vice-presidency grows close, I would once again like to mention the reality of Mormon laws and ordinances with regard to the White House.
The Mormons have a huge commitment to their prophet. In order to remain in good standing with the church and maintain a temple recommend, and become a god, it is imperative that each member does what the prophet says to do. This includes any Mormon president or vice-president. Romney has the potential of being a vice-president of this country. If he does get a seat in the white house, he would be required to follow the direction of the Mormon prophet, or whatever "revelation" the so-called prophet has been given. The Mormons believe that the United States will be run by the "Holy Priesthood." This is not a thing to take lightly. It is very serious. If the American people give the Mormons this chance to be in "authority", all Americans would be subject to follow the Mormon prophet indirectly. I can't stress this enough. Someone needs to let those in Washington, DC know that this would be a tragic mistake at best for our country!
Read America's Mormon Destiny posted on 12/08/07 in my blog.
My Kingdom Come
The is a great book to learn why it's important to keep a Mormon out of the oval office. Stop by Ed Decker's web site and check out more important information about the Mormons.
Click on the heading, "My Kingdom Come" at the top of the photo to go to Ed's web!
BBC News - Religion & Ethics - Mormonsiom
Under "Features"
Sub-title: Deification
"Mormons believe that human beings can become like gods. But they remain subordinate to God even when they become exalted and like God." (bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/mormonism/)
"Mormons believe that human beings can become like gods. The 5th president of the Church wrote: "As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be." However, this doesn't meant that human beings can grow to replace God. Mormons only worship God the Father through his son Jesus Christ. Nor do human beings become equal to God. They remain subordinate to God even when they become exalted and like God. "If...through God's grace a Latter-day Saint does one day become a god, he will continue to put his faith and trust in God, the Father, his Son and out Redeemer and Saviour Jesus, and in the Holy Spirit, and they will continue to be his God" And unlike the doctrines of some other faiths, it doesn't mean that humans can become one with God by becoming part of God - they remain separate beings, but take on the attributes of God." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/, BBC Team)
Now, here is the problem....., Mormons DO believe that they will BE gods, not 'like' gods. And they believe that they will be just as powerful as God is now.
"They have eternal increase, a continuation of the seeds forever and ever, a continuation of the lives, eternal lives; that is, they have spirit children in the resurrection, in relation to which offspring they stand in the same position that God our Father stands to us. They inherit in due course, the fulness of the glory of the Father, meaning that they have all power in heaven and on earth. (D & C 76:50-60; 93:1-40.) "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.: (D & C 132:16-26; Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 35-79.) (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R McConkie, pp. 257, boldness added)
"From this revelation, it will be seen that men can become Gods and enjoy a "fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever" only by observing the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, and that without marriage they can only become "ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory." ( A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, Legrand Richards, pp. 303, boldness added)
"But 'Mormonism' is bolder yet. It asserts that in accordance with the inviolable law of organic nature--that like shall beget like, and that multiplication of numbers and perpetuation of species shall be in compliance with the condition 'each after his kind,' the child may achieve that former status of the parent, and that in his mortal condition man is a God in embryo." (The Articles of Faith, James E. Talmage, pp. 474, boldness added)
There are many more 'Mormon' scripture and modern-day revelation to back up the thought: "MAN IS A GOD IN EMBRYO."
I don't know about you, but....this is bad, very bad. Man thinks they can become Gods by works and a marriage in a temple. Mormon temple that is....
Also, the Mormons do not teach that God gives grace to those who earned the right to be gods. The only thing they teach is how to become Gods!!!!!
Nowhere in the Bible does it teach this theology.
The Control Panel
Let me "Plug" you into the control panel of Mormonism.
Mind control is a very dangerous problem and is used extensively withing the Mormon world. Here are some points that I can think of. I'm sure I've missed some!
1. Control of Information
*What is read at home
*Family Home Evening every week
*Seminary every weekday
*Meetings-hours & hours; Sacrament, Primary, Sunday School, Priesthood, Relief Society, Young Men & Young Women
*Callings in the church-more meetings
*Activities-dances, dinners, sports, missionary duties, volunteer work, etc
*Missionary Work-give them rides, cook for them, etc
*Milk-to-Meat Theory-give a member only enough to keep him/her interested, give more information after a period of time if deemed worthy.
*Monitor what is watched on TV, listened to on the radio
*Don't talk to non-members (unless it is to convert them) or "Jack Mormons"
*Read the Standard Works, church magazines, books, newspapers, etc.
*Watch programs put out by the church
*Attend church all the time
*Stay busy in the church
*Home Teacher (Family visits) and Visiting Teacher (Sister visits) visits; they come to the home and see how your doing and give the prepared lesson for the month.
2. Thought Control
*Don't question authority-Priesthood
*Don't disagree with "God's" leaders: Bishop, teachers, prophet, elders, older members, etc.
*Call men 'brothers' and women 'sisters'
*Follow the Prophets "Do what your told" leadership
*It's the "Only" true church
*Feelings are unique-You are special
*Persecution complex
*Mormons are good all others are evil
*Perfection is a must
*Sing only church approved hymns and songs
3.Environment & Behavior Control
*Word of Wisdom must be followed
*Missionaries must wear dark suits and white ties
*What you wear must be approved of by the priesthood
*Must fast once a month
*Dis-fellowship is used as punishment
*Dis-fellowship forbids association with others as punishment
*Control of what and how much food to eat if on church welfare
*Even of its wrong; Things will be done to you either directly or indirectly in order for the desired end result.
*Home must reflect Mormonism
*Keep bathroom reading material Mormon orientated
*They (those in authority) will lie to you if the authority figure thinks its for the best or for your own good.
*Appear wholesome, happy, fulfilled all the time.
4.Special Language
*Thine, Thou, Thee, Thus, etc....are encouraged words
*Brotherin; as a reference
*Speak; brothers and sisters to all
5.Control of Feelings
*Fear and guilt used as negative enforcement
*Dis-fellowship and/or excommunication used
*Avoidance by members to others who have been excommunicated
*Re-enforcing the "Power of the Priesthood"
*Never contradict or disagree with anyone in authority
*Confess sins to Bishop
*Sinful to take sacrament without getting rid of all sins weekly
*(New members or new move-ins) First---feel good! At first only; The feelings of love and positive re-enforcement are heavily used. Everyones smile is superficial.
*(New members or new move-ins) Give gifts and lots of attention through home visits, phone calls, cards, letters, food-Bonbard them with superficial kindness.
*(New members or new move-ins) Make them feel relaxed and happy
*Take advantage of a crisis-church intervention of goodwill
The five major points in this "Control Panel" are the same points that define a CULT!
Bush's Temple Handshake
I got this picture in a newsletter from Saints Alive in Jesus through my email today.
President Bush is using the "sure sign of the nail" handshake with the new Prophet of the LDS church. Bush is lowering himself for money via donations. Is there something more to this? Hummmm.......?
The Priesthood Blessing
It was a Sunday afternoon shortly after church and I just laid the two babies down for their daily nap. Just about then, Convert had a phone call by one of the members of the church whom he was assigned to as home teacher. He spoke on the phone for only a moment or two, then hung up the receiver while explaining to me about the call. He said he needs to go because one of the females of that members family was in the hospital and Convert needed to go give a priesthood blessing to her. He checked his consecrated (blessed) oil that hung on his key ring, then he turned to me and said that he doesn't know how long he'll be gone.
I didn't think much of his need to leave, I just thought how he was called out to do his priesthood duty and fulfill his responsibility to the church. After Convert left, I cleaned the table from lunch and then sat down on the couch to get some rest before the children woke up. I was on the edge of dozing off went the phone rang. The sudden noise woke me up, so I got up and answered it. The voice on the other end was Convert. He said he was calling from the hospital and he wanted to let me know that the girl was going to be fine. Then he said, "I've got my arm around her, are you jealous?" I thought that it was a weird question, but I answered him, "No." I was uncomfortable with the situation. At first I thought of how inappropriate his actions were. And, "Why would he call me and ask such a dumb question?"
Convert got home a few hours later and I didn't confront him about the phone conversation we had. He briefly spoke of the situation that put that young lady in the hospital and then afterwards he took a nap. Me, I tended to the children who have sense woke up and were into just about everything.
A few years later when Convert and I moved to Utah from Michigan, the family who took us into their apartment was none-the-less but the family of this young gal that Convert saw in the hospital. The family treated us like their own and I was grateful for them opening their home to us while Convert found a job.
The relationship between Convert and that young lady will never be made known to me. However, my gut feeling tells me that Convert used a priesthood blessing as an excuse to be with someone that quite possibly really didn't need consecrated oil and laying on of hands. If there was oil and hands used, I know it wasn't used for God's purpose.
"Is Mormonism Christian?"
Click on the image and read what Hank Hanegraff, from Christian Research Institute has to say about the daunting Question, "Is Mormonism Christian?"
The Two Meanings of Endowment
"What is an endowment? The New Testament speaks of "endowing." After Christ's resurrection, He told his apostles that they must stay in Jerusalem until they were "endued with power from on high" (Luke 24:49). The fulfillment of that commandment is presented in Acts 2, on the day of Pentecost. The Apostles were given power from on high when the Holy Ghost manifested Himself in great glory--and gave both strength and the power of revelation to Christ's disciples.
The same power from on high is available to modern Saints who enter the temple to receive their own endowment and to act as proxy to receive an endowment on behalf of their deceased ancestors." (www.familiesforever.com)
"The apostles had been waiting for Pentecost. Jesus had told his apostles, "And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high" (Lk. 24:49). We read in Acts 1:4 that they are in Jerusalem waiting as Jesus had told them to do. Hence, the language "day of Pentecost was fully come" is significant.
The day of Pentecost is often called the hub of the Bible. The day of Pentecost in Acts 2 fulfilled many kingdom and salvation prophecies (cp. Joel 2:28-32; Isa. 2:2,3, see Acts 2:16-47). The apostles were baptized in the Holy Spirit to enable them to execute their commission, the full gospel was officially preached and Jesus' last will and testament came into being, the church become a reality, and remission of sin based on Jesus; shed blood was first experienced on the day of Pentecost.
The day of Pentecost was the birth of Christianity. It was on this memorable day that repentance and baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins was first taught and experienced (Acts 2:38). The height of Joel's prophesy had been "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered" (Joel 2:32). When those whose hearts had been pricked asked what must they do, were told, and did it, they were calling on the name of the Lord (Acts 2:37-42). People today are thus saved in the same way by calling on Jesus' name (Rom. 10:13)." (www.biblequestions.org)
The differences of the text are clear. The day of Pentecost is about the birth of Christianity not about a temple ritual.
The Hill Cumorah Pageant
It's about that time of the year when the LDS church puts on its annual play in Palmyra, New York. The photo you see here shows a more currant scene of "The Hill."
I remember going to "The Hill Cumorah Pageant" back in 1979. The whole adventure was a huge adrenalin rush for me. As the president of the Laural class, I was intimately involved in the construction of the four day trip. The process of the organization took many meetings and when it was all put together, the Bishop had to give his consent.
I can't remember all of the details now, but I remember that the pageant was quite the show. I was so impressed with the whole event, I too wanted to be a part of the festivities. Funny, I can't remember the show that much, but I remember the tee shirt I wore. It was light blue in color and it said, "Families are Forever." I wore the shirt out.
Below are two pictures from that trip. I have more but there are too many people in each photo.
I can't say that my childhood was all bad, the trips that I made while in the Young Women's Organization were educational as to my geograghical insights. Especially when all I knew was Utah and Idaho. (The person you see above is sitting on the throne that was used in the pageant back in 1979.)
The church makes this pageant a big deal. The reality is... "the whole concept of the pageant is wrong!" I hope that by reading the rest of my blog you'll see how the Mormon church makes a cult seem believable!
Polygamy Leadership Line
Click on the picture above and see the line of polygamy. The person who started all of this is non else, but....Joseph Smith!
Radical not Moderate
"The Jesus of the gospels is the great Nonconformist. Even a very cursory reading makes it plain that Jesus was always being criticized for His failure to conform to the expected pattern. He was, in the opinion of the people of His day, extremely unconventional. Why does He hobnob with the riff-raff and disreputable people (Mk 2:16)? Why do they feast instead of fasting (2:18)? Why are they so casual about keeping the details of the Law (2:24)? He had answers for all these questions, but neither His answers nor His reasons seem always to have been understood.
He was accused not only of being unconventional, but also of being a fanatic [I think radical is a better word]. They did not use that word, but the words they used were intended to wound and hurt...It seems that He was not moderate. He was not the kind of colourless character about whom nobody has any bad word to say, or good word either. He was not out to please people by compromising in order to avoid offence. He insisted that the new wine of the new covenant could not be contained in the old legalistic bottles; the accepted forms were inadequate and unable to serve the new kingdom.
He seems to have been rather an uncomfortable person to be with, but when He differs from the customs of His time we can see that He is right to differ, and that it is our thinking which has been wrong. There is a perfection and an order and a sanity about all that He says and does. Here is One who does all things well, who is full of grace and truth, and out of whose mouth proceed gracious words, and indeed nobody else ever spoke as wonderfully as He spoke (Mk. 7:37; Jn. 1:14; Lk. 4:22; Jn. 7:46). His claims seem to be extreme and absolute, and the authority He claims is supreme. His own dedication is to finish the work (Jn. 4 34; 5:36) which His Father has given Him to do, and His meat and drink is to do the will of God. He has a tremendous sense of being hemmed in, constrained (Lk. 12:50), until it is accomplished. Here is a man with His face steadfastly set to go to Jerusalem (Lk. 9:51), so much so that those who followed were frightened by the intensity of His Purpose (Mk. 10:32ff.). Is this an attitude of moderation, of not taking things too far? Here is One in Gethsemane, calling on God with strong crying and tears (Heb. 5:7, AV), going on to death, even the shameful death of the cross. Is this moderation?" (Take My Life, Micheal Griffiths, Inter-Varsity Press, pg. 22-23, brackets added)
Jesus Christ is a strong example of how a person should be in their own life. Radical not moderate. The choice is yours.
DNA via Patriarch-It's a Tribal Thing
"We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion will be built upon this [the American] continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory." (Pearl of Great Price, Articles of Faith, #10)
The LDS believe that through becoming a baptized member of the Mormon church that they become "regathered" as Israelites, either as recovered from the scattered tribes of Israel, or as Gentiles adopted and grafted into Israel, and thus becoming part of the chosen people of God. The LDS believe that there are Old Testament passages of scripture that imply prophecies about the tribe of Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh). The tribe is to have a prominent role in the last days. The tribe of Judah will also have a prominent role as well.
The Patriarchal Blessing, a cherished piece of paper that has written blessing(s), is specially designed for the person who it's addressed to. It is an anticipated event that is done at the right time and at the right stage in a persons Mormon spiritual life. The blessing is given by only one who has the authority, through the priesthood, and who is set apart to do so. It is a document that holds the future for the Mormon person that deserves its message. The blessing usually contains several insights that are common for each LDS believer, but with personal tailoring to each individual.
A Patriarchal Blessing:
*Declares a person's lineage, meaning which tribe of Israel he/she belongs to.
*Gives insight about a persons life, may include promises of blessings, warnings about temptations or weaknesses, or counsel about how the person should live.
*Can be received by any worthy member of LDS when he/she is old enough.
*Is a sacred and personal document that should be read and studied often, but should not be shared casually with others.
*Is conditional on a persons faith, righteousness, and obedience to God's Commandments.
"The Jews were to gather to Jerusalem and the rest of the children of Israel were to gather in Zion, which according to Joseph Smith, is Independence, Missouri....Early Mormons believed that God led the scattered descendants of Israel to join the church. Lineage thus became very important to the LDS people....Joseph Smith introduced the concept of the Patriarchal Blessing where a Mormon's lineage is given....Originally these designations were taken as literal fact, but now the church says it doesn't matter if you are truly descended from Israel, you are adopted into the family when you join the LDS Church." (Salt Lake Messenger, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, Issue No. 110, pg.3)
"...we believe in the literal gathering of Israel--that those who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today have within their veins the blood of the house of Israel, the covenant people of the Lord, either by birth or through adoption. We believe that the covenant people of Israel were mixed among "all nations of the earth," and that through missionary work, we call out the Lord's elect and gather the tribes of Israel. This is a particularly exciting time in missionary work, as LDS members of all of the twelve tribes of Israel have been identified in various lands through LDS patriarchal blessings. That which was once lost is again found as the Lord remembers his ancient covenants to the House of Israel and--equally important--as the lost children of Israel remember their Lord and Savior, who manifested himself anciently to His people both in the Land of Israel and in the lands of their dispersion." (http://missionaryhelper.com/geneology/)
"The consistent patterns of lineage are particularly remarkable considering that they are given by thousands of independent patriarchs across the LDS church, and that patriarchs receive no training in determining lineage, [nor have their been any official church statements or theologies on the location of members of any of the "lost tribes" besides Ephraim and Manasseh.]...Nonetheless, much additional data is required upon this and other topics before any clear determinations can be made. Whatever the case, one of the few firm conclusions we can draw is that the "lost tribes" are becoming progressively less "lost" as the LDS Church continues its international growth." (Beyond Asireth: The Twelve Tribes of Israel Today, David Stewart)
Zion on this [the American] continent....."Originally the gathering was to be to the center of Zion, Independence, Missouri, but when the Mormons were driven out of both Missouri and Illinois they had to broaden the concept of "Zion." It changed to mean all of North America. However, in the twentieth century the church de-emphasized the importance of the gathering. Speaking at the October 2006 LDS conference Apostle Russell M. Nelson explained that the Mormons are to gather in their own homelands, not to America: '...True, in the early days of the Church, conversion often meant emigration as well. But now the gathering takes place in each nation.' ....This led the people at Reachout Trust to observe: In such circumstances the Church has, over the years, found it helpful to trawl through early Church writings to find alternative definitions of Zion. These include identifying Zion as a cause, a state of being, or "the pure in heart", the whole of America, and finally wherever Mormons are gathered in the nations of the world. All, in Mormon theology, are legitimate definitions of Zion. This development of the concept of Zion is held up as an example of "continuing revelation in a growing Church". However,Doctrine and Covenants section 84, makes it plain that, however you identify Zion, the centre place is Independence, Missouri. The problem is that, today, the centre place of the Mormon Zion is Salt Lake City. Revelation? (www.reachouttrust.org/articles/ldsquest/ldsq5.htm)"(Salt Lake Messenger, Utah Lighthouse Ministries, Issue No. 110, pg.4)
The following scripture taken out of the Doctrine and Covenants gives more testimony that the Mormons are to gather into Zion, Jackson County, Missouri.
"Hearken, O ye elders of my church, saith the Lord your God, who have assembled yourselves together, according to my commandments, in this land, which is the land of Missouri, which is the land which I have appointed and consecrated for the gathering of the saints. Wherefore, this is the land of promise, and the place for the city of Zion. And thus saith the Lord your God, if you will receive wisdom here is wisdom. Behold, the place which is now called Independence is the center place; and a spot for the temple is lying westward, upon a lot which is not far from the court-house." (Doctrine and Covenants 57:1-3)
Funny how the Mormons don't heed to this scripture anymore. Although, I did notice that a (Mormon) friend moved to Missouri not too long ago. My parents are wanting land there as well. My parents desire to be buried there.
The "Literal Gathering of Israel" is not happening the way Joseph Smith said it was to happen. Can you imagine ALL of the Mormon believers in Independence, Missouri? The poor state would fall to the center of the the earth!?!
OATH IS AN OATH-OH NO!
When you talk with a Mormon about oaths, the more popular vision that pops into their mind are the oaths that are taken in the temple. These [so called] sacred acts and sayings are the pinnacle of Mormon life on this earth. Every good upstanding member dreams that one day they too will be a part of the elite group of god wannabee's who will be a part of the temple ceremonies. An oath is a very sacred thing to them. It tells them that they have made covenants to God and if they are good enough in this life, through the oaths they took, they will be in the celestial heavens making babies for new earths and heavens.
For a Mormon to hear that another member broke an oath or oaths, is very shocking to them, and are abhorred by the very thought. The freely taking of an oath in a cult is in reality not an oath taken freely at all. It was taken under false pretense and non-biblical temple rituals that are not a commitment to God at all. They come from the 'Evil One.'
Christ Himself gave instructions during the Sermon on the Mount to not participate in oath taking. Oaths are not to be a part of a Christian life. "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. (Matthew 5:33-37 NKJV)
FLDS-Their Roots
Joseph F. Smith, the Mormons 6th prophet, was under tremendous pressure to put an end to the Mormon church's polygamous activities which was declared illegal by the US government in 1874-the Poland Bill. Not only did Reed Smoot counsel him to stop polygamy, the church attorney Franklin S. Richards did likewise. Richards informed Smith that some sort of declaration be written to show that the church was now anti-polygamous.
As a result of the pressure from Smoot, Richards and others, Joseph F. Smith issued a Manifesto to the Mormon community. Not only did it uphold the first Manifesto from Woodruff, the 4th prophet, but there was a serious penalty for disobedience: "If any officer or member of the church shall assume to solemnize or enter into any such marriage he will be deemed in transgression against the church, and will be liable to be dealt with according to the rules and regulations thereof and excommunicated therefrom." (Joseph F. Smith, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Conference Report, April 7, 1904) Smith himself was in clear violation of both manifestos. He had six wives to himself, yet Smith's second manifesto marked the beginning of a separation within the church. Mormons continued with polygamous marriages that had been taken place in their temples, and had been published in the local paper as late as 1910.
The Mormon church struggled with getting the polygamous image removed from their church. Two of their own apostles were used as scapegoats by the LDS authorities to protect that image. This act was part of Mormons assimilation into mainstream society. "LDS leaders subsequently resorted to what has become a hallmark of Mormonism-revision of history. Even before Musser's [A Fundamentalist publisher of the "Truth" magazine.] arrest, the article "Leaves From An Old Scrapbook" had been published in the church's Deseret News (June 1, 1940). It stated that polygamy began among the saints primarily because Mormons needed to rapidly increase their population in Utah to do the "work of subduing the deserts and building Zion." After that had been accomplished, said the article, plural marriage was no longer needed, and so it was discontinued." (One Nation Under Gods, Richard Abanes, pg 346, brackets added)
Not all Mormon believers accepted all the changes that were happening within the church. Future presidents of the LDS church continued to distance mainstream Mormonism away from polygamy, and after cohabitation became a felony, the church excommunicated large numbers of polygamists. Such action only gave birth to a full-blown movement of people committed to following the old ways. They are known as the Mormon Fundamentalists, or the FLDS = Fundamentalist Latter-day Saints.
Political Power and Polygamy
All of this is a section taken from "One Nation Under Gods, by Richard Abanes." It is a valuable reference book that gives factual history about Mormonism.
"It was painfully obvious to the Committee on Privileges and Elections that the Mormon hierarchy, which included Smoot, had for many years been practicing, encouraging, and solemnizing polygamy......The Senate committee ended up voting seven to five against accepting Smoot as a senator. But by the time the committee's report and recommendation finally was debated before the senate in 1907, Smoot already had been in Congress for several years. He had formed political alliances, no doubt made quid pro quo agreements with various congressmen, and most importantly, during a private meeting had convinced U.S. president Teddy Roosevelt of his innocence. So when the full Senate voted, Smoot came out on top and he retained his congressional seat......Smoot himself had lied under oath. He claimed, for instance, that he had never heard a discussion of plural marriage in meetings of the apostles and had never himself "promulgated or advised the promulgation of the practice of polygamy." But it is now known that Smoot, prior to 1904, had been present at sixteen meetings, where plural marriage was discussed by the apostles, including a January 1902 meeting, during which Smoot told fellow apostles that the plural order of Marriage "if universally practiced would save the world much sorrow and distress." He also said he "looked forward to its restoration." Then, in October 1903, Smoot was present when LDS leader Marriner W. Merrill advised three apostles to marry plural wives. Yet in 1904, Smoot testified before the U.S. Senate that he had never heard a discussion of plural marriage in the Temple. Also in 1904, Smoot advised the First Presidency to have post-Manifesto plural wives hide in order to avoid arrest.
Despite these less than honorable acts, Smoot held his position in Washington for thirty years, eventually becoming one of the Most powerful of all congressmen. Consider the following assessment of Smoot that was written in 1932 by syndicated columnist Raymond Clapper: 'Utah has Senator Smoot and he has built up a dynasty of appointees which penetrates into a dozen or so of the most important branches of the government...Ramifications of the Smoot dynasty are intricate enough to provide rich diggings for a political genealogist. Chairman of the mighty Senate Finance Committee, ranking member of the powerful committees on Appropriations, Public Lands, Public Buildings, and Rules, Smoott's influence extends in all directions. With it all, he is probably the hardest working man in Congress, tireless in dealing with a tariff or tax bill, a demon for efficiency, once described by President Harding as the most valuable public servant in Washington."......Thus began the powerful political presence of Mormons in the Nation's capital. Meanwhile, back in Utah, the LDS church was facing yet another problem-a significant number of Mormons were continuing to practice plural marriage. Drastic steps would need to be taken; steps that would fracture Mormonism into two main groups: 1) the progressives, who agreed to follow the new anti-polygamy path of the church; and 2) the Fundamentalist, who refused to abandon the old ways and teachings of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and John Taylor." (One Nations Under Gods, Richard Abanes, pgs, 337, 341, 342)
There it is. Mormonism wedged its way into politics through Smoot and polygamy. While Smoot was dancing through Washington, DC, the Mormon church split in two: One side stuck with the real teachings of the Mormon prophets, thus The Fundamentalists; and the other side went away from eternal commands from leaders that were deemed to be the most holy Mormon men on earth, thus The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
An Eternal Doctrine
Polygamy, a problem that is still with us even unto this day. I think it is important for all those interested to understand that even though mainstream Mormonism no longer verbalizes the validity of a command that was spoken by the mouth of the very first Mormon; the practice is still in full force and no matter how many times the LDS deny its importance in their religion, it is still a very real part of their eternal exaltation.
"We shall pull the wool over the eyes of the American people and make them swallow Mormonism, polygamy and all." (Brigham Young, 1875)
"[Joseph] used to state to his intended victims, as he did to me: "God does not care if we have a good time, if only other people do not know it." He only introduced a marriage ceremony when he found out he could not get certain women without it....If any woman, like me, opposed his wishes, he used to say: "Be silent, or I shall ruin your character. My character must be sustained in the interest of the Church." (An 1880 interview with Sarah Pratt, Orson Pratt's first wife)
Brainwashing-Final Product
This is so sad. She looks as though she is ready to cry. Feelings---yeah, that's what the Mormons want you to use. That's the last thing you should use. Test the spirits.......not feel the spirits......
The Three Challenges
"Sisters, will you accept these three challenges: sustain your husband, strengthen your home, and serve your God? I promise, as a servant of the Lord, that as you do, the blessings of heaven will attend you." (Ensign, January 1971, Thomas S. Monson)
Sustain your Husband: Obedience, Submission, Control. To fully sustain your husband, a wife is to submit herself to the authority that their husband holds, or the priesthood. Full obedience to this authority is the focal point in a Mormon husband/wife relationship. A wife is to be controlled in all she does. She is not to hold the priesthood. That is just a male thing. A priesthood holder is given a wide open gate to do as he pleases with his wife. The wife must be fully acceptable to all that the husband puts before her. Even things like: lies, deception, mental abusiveness, ridicule, physical abuse, half-truths, his countless encounters with other women, disrespect, demeaning comments, and many more that I didn't mention. The priesthood authority even allowed him to have me excommunicated without my knowledge. All this was done to me all the while I was 'sustaining' my husband. If not, she/I will not be a part of the celestial kingdom and continue to have spirit children for her polygamist husband. (Yes, the Mormons still believe in being polygamists.)
Strengthen Your Home: How can a wife and mother strengthen the home if the priesthood holder is constantly loosing his job, moving himself and his family constantly from place to place, demeaning his wife in front of the children, telling his own children that their mother is no good, keeping the mother from home by keeping her busy with the home-based business, not letting her be the mother to her own children? Any priesthood holder should be proud of these qualities of a Mormon man because the priesthood allows men to do as they please with their wives. To strengthen ones home should not require the the constant discontent that I and my children had to suffer while in a Mormon house(s).
Serve your God: Attend church, pay tithes and offerings (not to mention the bishop's storehouse and the missionary fund), hold church callings that priesthood holders appoint you to, be the best homemaker that you can possibly be (canning, baking, cooking, sewing, gardening, cleaning, crocheting, knitting, crafts, art, music, etc.), whatever else that the husband needs her to do around the house or outside of the house, (except working for money, the husband wants the wife to be totally dependent of him only).
The role of the Mormon women are constantly changing, according to the Modern theology of the Mormon world. My sisters both work, my sister-in-laws all work. Education is a must in their lives. Strange though, when I was growing up and learning the works of a good upstanding young Mormon woman and wife, working outside of the home and getting an education beyond the 12th grade was not what was taught. It was frowned upon by the priesthood holders of the church. I can still recall my dad telling my that I couldn't even get married!
The HOLY PRIESTHOOD is only good for the male population. The history of the church proves this. The changes that are being made for the women of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not really changes. They are pacifiers. The role of a woman in the church is not different now since from the beginning. Men hold womens lives in their authoritative hands and with one squeeze, the force and pressure will break more than physical bones. It ruins the minds of human beings that God has created.
The blessings of heaven started when I got out of Mormonism. While I was in Mormonism, hell prevailed. A nightmare that still taunts my dreams and alters my realities. The Mormon church did nothing for me, but teach me how to be the best slave to a man that clearly was not concerned for his family or wife.
